Slight oil leak and what to do

Martin@Alaska

Martin@Alaska

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Yesterday I visited I think our only certified Porsche mechanic, he has opened a new shop after leaving the dealer and was having an open house. We put my 03 Boxster S up on the rack and he did a quick inspection. One thing he noted was a slight oil leak at the back of the engine where the engine connects to the transmission. He said it was likely the rear engine seal, but that it was a good idea to pull the transmission to determine if it was the engine seal vs the possibility of a future IMS failure. There were a handful of other Porsche owners there as well so I may have missed the details, but he was suggesting it was a good idea to check it out vs letting it go.

I have certainly read here about the risk associated with the IMS failure and it taking out your engine. If the tranny was pulled is there a way to externally inspect it to figure out if there was risk of an IMS failure?

I did purchase a "platinum level" extended warranty from Fidelity Warranty Services when I purchased the car last fall, so I was going to call them to see if this would be covered. Anyone have any experience with this warranty company? I have heard such mixed experiences with these extended warranties. And if the IMS was to fail, would they cover it? It seems like they would based on the language of the contract, but who knows, perhaps they can hide behind "known design flaws" or something similar.

Appreciate any guidance on this issue.

Martin.
 
I had the same thing told to me by a local certified Porsche shop. It was a small drop of oil in the same place. After several months I decided to have the IMS bearing changed out to the LN Engineering ceramic IMS bearing and the RMS replaced at the same time. I got the most competitive bid from another Porsche shop and when they removed the trans neither the RMS or IMS were leaking and there was no sign of an oil leak anywhere. Since the entire job was only $1800 and the ceramic bearing was $700 of that I spent the $1800 as preventative maintenance to keep from having to spend $15K on a new motor. Can't tell you about your warranty only that I bought one from a different company and the first time I had to use it the first thing they told me was pre existing condition. I could see the hand writing on the wall and cancelled the policy got a refund and put the money in an account to cover problems.
 
Offshore,

Your experience is exactly what I can see happening to me. But you doing the proactive change out of the IMS bearing makes sense if you have already gone to the expense of opening everything up. Is the ceramic bearing the fix of choice? I haven't researched that yet. The mechanic I spoke to made it sound like if he found the leak to be the rear engine seal, he wouldn't go further. I need to talk to him more about this, as I expect the major labor is getting to the point of being able to have access to replace the IMS bearing.

I was a little apprehensive about the warranty but since I got such a good price on the car and knew that any major could be very expensive it seemed like a good decision at the time. I'll see how the call goes tomorrow with the warranty company to start the process of dealing the leak.

Martin.
 
Martin here is a link to a video I made of the IMS bearing replacement. I had to cut 20 minutes from it but it has the meat of the replacement process. The LN ceramic bearing lasts 3-5 times the life of the OEM bearing due to the ceramic nature of the bearings and the fact it is not a sealed bearing like the OEM. The ceramic bearing is designed to be lubricated by the oil so you should change oil and filter at 7500 miles instead of the 15000 Porsche recommends. The ceramics don't heat up as much as the OEM and aren't prone to pitting causing more wear and eventual seizure or catastrophic coming to pieces. Once the tranny is off the RMS is directly above the IMS so you might as well change the RMS to the new silicon seal that Porsche has designed.
http://www.flintworksauto.com/ims_video
 
Your extended warranty should cover the oil leak with no problem. The warranty would not cover replacing the IMS bearing or upgrading it. If the IMS bearing does fail then your extended warranty would cover an engine replacement but depending on the warranty company sometimes they'll install a used engine rather than a new one.

To back up a little the normal repair with an oil leak in that area is to replace the rear main seal, replace the IMS flange seal, and replace 4 bolts that hold the engine case halves together. There is a bulliten on this and anyone who works on Porsches knows about it including extended warranty companies. Upgrading the IMS bearing is not a Porsche procedure and will never be covered by an extended warranty not to mention the fact that there are very few shops that do the upgrade.

If you do decide to do the IMS bearing upgrade for piece of mind and your mechanic is not familiar with the procedure feel free to have him contact me and I can explain everything.
 
Thanks Flintworks,

I did stop by and talk with the shop owner again today. He is a certified Porsche mechanic and has been in the trade for 25 years so I do trust his thoughts. He said today that his approach has been to inspect the rear main and if its leaking replace it and inspect the IMF seal and if its not leaking leave it alone. He did acknowledge there is a lot of debate over how to proceed in terms of peace of mind by replacing vs inspecting and not doing anything. At this point, I think I am going to lean in the direction that Gregg and you are suggesting, and leave the IMS alone if it all looks good.

I really appreciate the feedback and especially the part that this should be covered by my extended warranty.

Martin.
 
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Just called the warranty company and the person answering the phone was knowledgeable about the rear seal leak and the possibility of an IMS issue and the consequences. He mentioned they had replaced a number of Boxster engines. He said to take it in as soon as I could get an appointment and they would take it from there.

So, step 1 was painless. Car goes in on Thursday. $100 deductible.
 
the thing about his link that interests me is that a warranty company would actually pay. i researched these companies when my factory warranty was coming to an end, and couldn't find many recommendations and lots of complaints. in the end i just couldn't pull the trigger with any of them. i hope you will keep us informed as to how this progresses with your warranty.
 
Me too because the company I had a warranty through also said they'd pay until the inspector came out and claimed pre existing condition.
 
I am certainly not naive about how this could play out but the first contact was professional, direct and painless. He said they would talk to the shop and either have someone come and look at it or just have the shop send them pics. I will document the steps and see how painful they become as I move through the process.

The pre-existing question is an interesting one, as I purchased the car and the warranty through the dealer. I assume the dealer receives a commission on the sale of the plan, and as a result must give some assurance to the warranty company that the car is in acceptable condition. I also wonder if they get dinged if a claim comes in after only 1,00 miles, like in my case. I am not sure how without an inspection or some method to baseline the condition of the vehicle before they accepted to enter into an agreement with me to provide warranty services that they have any basis to refuse a legitimate claim.

The facts are that the dealer told me the car was in excellent condition, they offered me a warranty which I am sure they got a commission for and I accepted both on face value.

My main concern is that they will jerk the shop owner around. This is his first time going through this as he is a new business, and so I told him we can work this together and I will pay him if they delay payment to him and take up my claim directly with the warranty company.

I have the benefit of having a full time attorney on my staff, so writing legal challenges to any roadblocks they put up will be quick and easy.

I'll keep you posted on the progress.

Martin.
 
I have read the 8 page contract in its entirety and there is no mention of pre-existing conditions or claims being paid after some inspection and decision by the warranty company.

I have had a number of experiences with insurance companies and if they choose to try to limit their liability, one line of defense is to deny, hide behind a long document of small print which most people don't read and assume they don't have any recourse and just rely on the fact that most of their customers don't challenge them on their first level decision.

Based on everything I have read in my contract, this should be an easy transaction with the warranty company paying for all the costs with me paying my $100 deductible.

If that doesn't happen, it will be an interesting case to explore how these companies treat their customers if claims are denied.

Martin.
 
i worked for a dealership for a short time, and all they care about is selling the warranty. if there is a problem, they will say it is not them and contact the warranty company. if the warranty company won't pay, the dealer will fake concern and tell you it is not their deal. they could care less
 
I don't doubt that is the standard practice if they can get away with it. I plan to challenge that should it materialize and see how it plays out. A good test case perhaps.
 
Step 2

I dropped the car off at the repair shop. It is called German Steel, love the name. He called me this afternoon to tell me he had pulled the transmission and that the problem was definitely the rear engine seal. The IMS looked fine. Clutch looked practically like new but the throwout bearing was a bit dry, so I think I will have him replace it while he has it apart.

He called Fidelity Warranty this afternoon and he said they were very pleasant and easy to deal with. They authorized 7 hours of time for him to replace the seal, which he said was a bit more than he was planning on. Total approval is for $700. They told him that they would have a check to him within two weeks of him submitting his invoice.

I stopped into the shop this evening and took a look at everything. Once it's all apart, it is quite amazing how simple it all looks. I understand there is a lot of engineering that went into the design, but it is all quite straight forward once you see it pulled apart. I have included a couple of pics. Lot's of Porsche's being put away for the evening in the shop. All in all, the repair is going as planned and the warranty company is doing everything I hoped they would.

Also my new tires are sitting in the garage and will be installed as soon as the repair is completed.

I will keep you posted.

Martin.
 

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I'm curious about two things Martin. If you don't mind sharing what did you pay for the warranty? I wonder why the warranty company didn't send out their own inspector, which is the norm, perhaps your location?
 
Offshore,

I paid ~$1800 for a three year/30,000 mile warranty. I bought the platinum plan from Fidelity. When I called the agent he said they might want to have someone come out and inspect. From what I gathered from the shop owner, when they learned of his qualifications, they seemed comfortable with his diagnosis. They didn't even want pictures, which he offered to send. It is very likely they don't have someone up here to do inspections for them, they certainly would not find someone more qualified than the person working on my car. He has been a certified Porsche mechanic for 25 years with a wall full of certificates, and is the only one in Anchorage.

The one thing that has stood out in this process though is how they have treated me and the shop, their customer service has been excellent.

So far, this has been painless.
 
Update

Got a call today that my car would be done by the late afternoon. The delay in getting the repair done was because the shop is new and they didn't have the tool to install the rear engine seal, and couldn't find one in the US, so it was shipped from Germany. It arrived this morning, so work progressed quickly after that.

I picked the car up at the end of the day. It was sitting outside the shop, clean and ready to go. They replaced the rear main seal, throwout bearing and installed the new tires. Costs were as follows:

Parts.
Throw out Bearing - $100
New main Seal - $20

Labor
Remove/install Trasmission 5.9 hrs - $590
Flywheel R&R .2 hrs - $20
Rear main seal R&R .7 hrs - $70

Total repair was $700 which is the amount that was initially authorized by the warranty company.

An additional $100 to install/balance the new tires.

I spoke to the warranty company a couple of days ago to arrange for them to pay me vs paying the shop. They said they are happy to do either, but said for future reference for the shop, that they pay by credit card and so there is no delay in getting paid when the work is done. They said they will send me a check as soon as I fax them a copy of the repair order. I will send it in on Monday and let you know how quickly they pay. My costs should be just he $100 deductible for the RMS replacement. I don't think we had discussed the throw out bearing, which was in ok condition but dry and the mechanic said he recommended replacing it since we already had the tranny out. So I look forward to seeing if they will pay for that.

Tonight was a beautiful evening so I took a drive to test the new tires. Wow, they are so much better than the old Dunlops. Smooth, quiet and so much more grip. They have definitely upped the driving experience.

Attached are a couple of pics of the new rubber.
 

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Martin it's good to hear a positive story about warranty companies and that some of them work as they advertise. I remember checking into Fidelity after I cancelled my warranty and couldn't get a warranty through them because of the age and mileage of my car. Also good to hear you are enjoying your new rubber.:cool:
 
Final Update

All,

Good news today. I checked the mail and viola, a check from Fidelity was waiting :D They had approved $700 for the repair, which is what I was charged by the shop. They wrote me a check for $600 as I have a $100 deductible. I submitted my claim about ten days ago.

So the story ends well. I have to say Fidelity was very easy to deal with, their phone staff were technically competent, and the customer service was great.

Hope this helps others when deciding whether to purchase a warranty. I understand some folks have had different experiences, fortunately mine was good and I wouldn't hesitate recommending them based on my experience.

Martin.
 
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